A bounced check, a police arrest, and the fight to give millions a second chance

June 30, 20239:33 AM ET

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SHEENA MEADE: In 2004, I was newly a single mom trying to raise four children.

ZOMORODI: This is Sheena Meade. Sheena was living in Florida, and life was hectic.

MEADE: We had just moved into a new home. I was on Section 8 and just trying to get myself together. My children at that time were all under the age of 7. I was on government assistance, and I was just trying to make ends meet.

ZOMORODI: Sheena remembers an afternoon that started off like any other. Her kids were playing, running around. There were cartoons blaring in the background.

MEADE: And there was two knocks at the door, and it was a police officer with another police officer. And so the kids are like, Mom, the police at the door. I’m like, OK. So I’m looking at them confused, and I’m like – they’re like, are you Sheena? And I’m like, yes, because I didn’t have anything to be worried about, I didn’t think. I kind of was hesitant, but I was just like, they probably had the wrong door.

ZOMORODI: So what did they tell you?

MEADE: They’re like, we’re serving you in a warrant for a worthless check. You know, basically, like, you passed a check that got returned with no funds, and the company decided to prosecute. And so that check was for $87.26, a check that I had at that time written for groceries for my children. You know, at this time, this is when people were writing checks. My paycheck comes in on Friday, and we’ll write the check on the Wednesday. It takes a day to get the check from the grocery store till the check gets there. You know, I was trying to calculate and thinking that it would be OK, and it wasn’t.

ZOMORODI: I mean, honestly, I don’t think I realized that you could be arrested for bouncing a check. I guess I knew it was illegal, but that the police would show up and put you in handcuffs – they put you in handcuffs, right?

MEADE: Yes. And this is how green I am. You know, I’m like, so let me go find somebody, get the children. They’re like, we don’t have time for that. I’m like, well, can you meet me around the corner so you can’t arrest me in front of the children? I got arrested. I went to jail that day in front of my children.

ZOMORODI: Here’s Sheena Meade on the TED stage.

(SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK)

MEADE: Luckily, I was able to come home pretty quickly because it was my first defense. And I promise the first thing I did when I got home – I borrowed some money so I could pay that check back. And then I had to borrow some more money to pay back the fees for getting arrested and go to jail because, of course, I was loading the cash because I was a young mom with four kids bouncing $87 checks. And I just knew that chapter of my life was closed except it wasn’t because, see; that arrest and that conviction – it remained on my record.

And at that moment, I realized that my true sentence had just begun because you know what? I was no longer allowed to volunteer at my children’s school. I could no longer rent where I want to rent because it is legal for landlords to discriminate against a person with a record. I even face barriers trying to go to college. And still to this day, I am excluded from certain certifications and occupational license. All I could keep asking myself was, damn, when will my sentence end?

ZOMORODI: So even if you’ve paid the money, you’ve paid the bill, you’ve done your time, it still sticks with you.

MEADE: Yes. They try to define you by your record and not who you are. Yes. Let me tell you. So we were taking a field trip to SeaWorld, and in order for me to go on the field trip, I had to go online to fill out a chaperone application. And in part of that application, they asked me, have you ever been arrested? And when I went to go to apply for school, I had to check the box just to get my higher education. Seeking employment, people will maybe not want to employ you because of an arrest. And then there’s being able to rent a home in other communities. You know, I have to mark off that I’ve been arrested.

ZOMORODI: So faced with all those limitations, Sheena found workarounds.

MEADE: I worked in places where the box was banned. I worked for the labor movement. I worked in more progressive organizations. I did a lot of community organizing. I lived in places where I was very upfront with the landlord. I didn’t live in apartments because I knew that’s where we’d get flagged. But then it was just a few years ago where I went to go try to get a rental place, and we got denied. It’s like, when would I ever be free, is the question.

ZOMORODI: Sheena Meade made a mistake, one that’s cast a shadow over her entire life. And every day we hear about struggles people need to overcome, problems that we all need to live with or work around. But what if there actually is a fix? Today on the show, simple yet audacious solutions – three TED speakers combining their frontline experience with lots of data and a little common sense to make laws more effective, care better for foster children and hold environmental offenders accountable. And so back to Sheena Meade. For a long time, money was tight. She had trouble clearing other checks, but she managed to turn things around. She raised her kids, got a degree and worked her way up the ladder at nonprofits. And then she learned about something called a Clean Slate law.

(SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK)

MEADE: I truly believe that America is a nation of second chances. And I say that because just about every state has laws on the books that allow a person to get their record cleared once they’re eligible. And right now there are more than 30 million people who are eligible to get their record cleared. But this is where it gets a little crazy. Less than 10% of those people actually get it done. They don’t know about it, or if they do, the process is so bureaucratic, costly and full of red tape. For instance, in some states, people have to wait just about five to 10 years just to even qualify to get their record cleared. Then you have to appear in person to petition. That means you need to take time off work. And let’s keep it real. It was hard enough to find a job in the first place. You have to file a mountain of paperwork, and then sometimes you have to pay processing fees up to $500 per charge. So that means if your crime was being poor like mine, record clearance is not even accessible.

ZOMORODI: So almost every state has a law on the books that would allow people to get their record cleared once they’re eligible. Can you explain, like, who is eligible and what is that process?

MEADE: Yes. So it’s not just a cookie cutter policy that every state has the same policy. Some are very much more restrictive. Some are much more, like, quick to the point. Once you’ve been crime-free for a certain amount of time for certain offenses, you’re already eligible, but the burden’s on the person. They have to go initiate it. You have to know when that clock hits. Then you have to go file a petition. Then you may have to pay the fees that’s associated with filing petition. Then you have to wait for sign-off. It could be backlogs, and then you may be able to get it sealed or expunged or cleared.

ZOMORODI: And now you are actually the CEO of a group called the Clean Slate Initiative that is trying to help people who are eligible to do all that, in part, though, by changing the law state by state. Tell me more about exactly what you’re doing.

MEADE: Yeah. So with the Clean Slate Initiative, what we’re trying to do is just cut through all that red tape that the burden is no longer on the person. The burden is on the government to say, look. You said that we’re eligible to get our record cleared for certain types of offenses once we’re crime-free for a certain amount of time. When that time comes up, we’re asking you to just automatically clear that record. You have 30 million people that’s eligible right now to get their record cleared. But, again, how do you scale that? Passing Clean Slate automation. If we’re truly a nation of second chances, we don’t need to, like, put barriers in to, like, get people reintegrating into society.

ZOMORODI: How many people have had their records cleared by a law in their own state?

MEADE: You know, in April, Michigan went into implementation where they started to clear records. Since the passing of Clean Slate, over a million people got their records cleared.

ZOMORODI: Wow.

MEADE: And we have assisted in 3 million people having their records cleared so far.

ZOMORODI: So your organization has helped pass Clean Slate laws in six states. I mean, how hard was it to do, or is this something that people on both sides of the aisle understand is good because it means more people can go on with their lives; they can get jobs; they won’t be homeless?

MEADE: Yes. So we have helped six states pass Clean Slate laws, and there are 10 states that have enacted Clean Slate policies across the country. In many states, they’re not even moving this legislation as a criminal justice issue, more so, like, a workforce issue because people cannot get back to work if a record is holding them back. And we have a lot of employers and a lot of businesses that are coming into the fold, saying, how do we create a pathway for people to come back into the workforce? When we think about 1 in 3 people who have been arrested or convicted of an offense, that means a lot of us know someone who’s been impacted.

ZOMORODI: I do want to ask you, are there people who think, you know, tough luck; you made a mistake; you got to live with it? Or do you find that people are pretty sympathetic or on board with the Clean Slate Initiative?

MEADE: Yeah, You know, I tell them, like, yes, I made a decision, and I did the time that the law says I needed to do. I should – that should not define me for the rest of my life. If the law is saying that this should no longer be a barrier, then we need to make sure that it’s not. Our plan is to be able to go into states to get them all on the pathway to Clean Slate automation.

ZOMORODI: All of them.

MEADE: All of them over the next six years. We’re looking to be able to get over 14 million people having their records automatically cleared and get all 50 states on a pathway to automation.

ZOMORODI: I mean, it’s pretty historic what you and the Clean Slate Initiative want. I mean, it’s about changing the way we here in the United States think of punishment and crime. Is it radical to you, too?

MEADE: Do I think that this is radical? I think it’s just common sense. I think that when you talk to people, it’s just common sense. And, like, when we talk about redemption, second chances, forgiveness, I think most folks – when you have a conversation with folks and you bring the human element to it, folks are in agreement. We all have been given a second chance. And I think for most of us, we all have asked for a second chance, whether it was from our parents, our teachers, our spouses, our loved ones, even our kids, our communities. And so we talk about second chances. We talk about reentry, but yet we set up all this red tape. And we got to cut the red tape.

ZOMORODI: If you could talk to her again, what would you tell your 20-something self after she got arrested?

MEADE: You know, there’s a lot of things I could say to the 20-something-year-old Sheena. I’m telling you – a lot of things she should have done, you know? But that public pain that I had that day, getting arrested in front of my neighbors, in front of my children that made public record is going to be turned into a passion that’s going to fuel my purpose to help millions of people across the country to realize that they are going to be able to have a second chance and that this thing is going to turn around. She probably won’t believe me. She’d be like, yeah, OK. But I would just tell her to just keep persevering. Keep pushing.

ZOMORODI: That’s Sheena Meade, CEO of the Clean Slate Initiative. You can see her full talk at ted.com. And by the way, the latest state to pass a Clean Slate law is New York. On the show today, audacious solutions. I’m Manoush Zomorodi, and you’re listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR. Stay with us.

翻译文稿

SHENA MEADE：2004 年，我刚刚成为一名单亲妈妈，试图抚养四个孩子。

佐莫罗迪：我是希娜·米德。希娜住在佛罗里达州，生活很忙碌。

米德：我们刚刚搬进新家。我在第八区，只是想让自己振作起来。当时我的孩子都还不到7岁，我靠政府救济，勉强维持生计。

佐莫罗迪：希娜记得那个下午和其他任何一个下午一样。她的孩子们正在玩耍、跑来跑去。背景里播放着卡通片。

米德：有人敲门两次，是一名警察和另一名警察。所以孩子们就像，妈妈，警察在门口。我想，好吧。所以我困惑地看着他们，我想——他们就像，你是希娜吗？我想，是的，因为我没有什么可担心的，我不认为。我有点犹豫，但我想，他们可能走错门了。

佐莫罗迪：那么他们告诉了你什么？

米德：他们就像是，我们向你提供一张毫无价值的支票的搜查令。你知道，基本上，就像你通过了一张没有资金而被退回的支票，公司决定起诉。这张支票的金额是 87.26 美元，这是我当时为我的孩子们购买杂货而开的支票。你知道，这个时候，正是人们写支票的时候。我的薪水周五到账，我们将在周三开出支票。从杂货店领取支票到支票到达需要一天的时间。你知道，我试图计算并认为这会没问题，但事实并非如此。

佐莫罗迪：老实说，我认为我没有意识到你可能会因为空头支票而被捕。我想我知道这是非法的，但警察会出现并给你戴上手铐 – 他们给你戴上手铐，对吧？

米德：是的。这就是我的绿色。你知道，我想，所以让我去找人，带上孩子们。他们说，我们没有时间。我想，好吧，你能在拐角处遇见我，这样你就不会在孩子们面前逮捕我吗？我被捕了。那天我当着孩子们的面进了监狱。

佐莫罗迪：这是 TED 舞台上的希娜·米德。

（TED 演讲原声片段）

米德：幸运的是，我能够很快回家，因为这是我的第一次防守。我保证回家后做的第一件事就是借一些钱，这样我就可以偿还支票。然后我不得不借更多的钱来偿还被捕的费用并入狱，因为，当然，我正在加载现金，因为我是一个有四个孩子的年轻妈妈，支票上有 87 美元的空头支票。我只知道我生命中的这一章已经结束了，但这并不是因为，看；那次逮捕和那次定罪——它一直保留在我的记录中。

在那一刻，我意识到我真正的判决才刚刚开始，因为你知道吗？我不再被允许在孩子的学校做志愿者。我无法再在我想租房的地方租房，因为房东歧视有记录的人是合法的。我什至在尝试上大学时面临障碍。直到今天，我仍被排除在某些认证和职业执照之外。我只能不停地问自己，该死，我的刑期什么时候结束？

ZOMORODI：所以即使你已经付了钱，你已经付了帐单，你已经完成了你的时间，它仍然会伴随着你。

米德：是的。他们试图通过你的记录来定义你，而不是你是谁。是的。让我告诉你。因此，我们要去海洋世界进行实地考察，为了让我能够参加实地考察，我必须上网填写监护人申请表。在该申请的一部分中，他们问我，你被捕过吗？当我去申请学校时，我必须勾选此框才能获得高等教育。在寻找工作时，人们可能会因为被捕而不想雇用您。然后就可以在其他社区租房子了。你知道，我必须注明我已被捕。

ZOMORODI：面对所有这些限制，Sheena 找到了解决方法。

米德：我在禁止使用盒子的地方工作过。我为劳工运动工作。我在更进步的组织中工作。我做了很多社区组织工作。我住的地方对房东非常坦诚。我不住在公寓里，因为我知道那是我们会被标记的地方。但就在几年前，我去尝试租一个地方，但遭到拒绝。问题就好像，我什么时候才能有空。

佐莫罗迪：希娜·米德犯了一个错误，这个错误给她的一生蒙上了阴影。我们每天都会听到人们需要克服的困难，以及我们都需要忍受或解决的问题。但如果确实有解决办法呢？今天的节目中，我们展示了简单而大胆的解决方案——三位 TED 演讲者将他们的一线经验与大量数据和一点常识相结合，使法律更加有效，更好地照顾寄养儿童，并追究环境违法者的责任。回到希娜·米德。长期以来，资金紧张。她在兑现其他支票时遇到了困难，但她设法扭转了局面。她抚养了孩子，获得了学位，并在非营利组织中一步步晋升。然后她了解到了一种叫做“Clean Slate law”的东西。

（TED 演讲原声片段）

米德：我坚信美国是一个拥有第二次机会的国家。我这么说是因为几乎每个州都有法律规定，允许一个人一旦符合资格就可以清除他们的记录。目前，有超过 3000 万人有资格清除记录。但这就是有点疯狂的地方。其中只有不到 10% 的人真正完成了任务。他们不知道这一点，或者即使他们知道，这个过程也是如此官僚、成本高昂且充满繁文缛节。例如，在某些州，人们必须等待大约五到十年才有资格清除记录。然后你必须亲自到场请愿。这意味着您需要请假。让我们保持真实。一开始找工作就已经够难的了。你必须提交堆积如山的文书工作 有时您需要支付每笔费用高达 500 美元的手续费。所以这意味着如果你的犯罪行为像我一样糟糕，甚至无法获得记录清除。

佐莫罗迪：几乎每个州都有一项成文法律，允许人们在符合资格后清除记录。您能否解释一下谁有资格以及该流程是什么？

米德：是的。因此，每个州都有相同的政策，这不仅仅是千篇一律的政策。有些限制性更强。有些则更直接，比如，开门见山。一旦您在一定时间内没有犯下某些罪行，您就已经符合资格，但负担由该人承担。他们必须去发起它。你必须知道时钟何时敲响。那你得去递交请愿书。然后您可能需要支付与提交申请相关的费用。然后就需要等待签收了。它可能是积压的，然后你可以将其密封、删除或清除。

佐莫罗迪：现在你实际上是一个名为“Clean Slate Initiative”的组织的首席执行官，该组织试图帮助有资格做到这一切的人，但在一定程度上是通过逐州修改法律来实现的。告诉我更多关于你正在做什么的信息。

米德：是的。因此，通过“从头开始计划”，我们要做的就是消除所有繁文缛节，使负担不再落在个人身上。政府有责任说，看。您说过，一旦我们在一定时间内没有犯罪，我们就有资格清除某些类型的犯罪记录。当该时间到来时，我们要求您自动清除该记录。现在有 3000 万人有资格清除他们的记录。但话又说回来，你如何扩展它呢？通过 Clean Slate 自动化。如果我们确实是一个拥有第二次机会的国家，我们就不需要设置障碍，让人们重新融入社会。

佐莫罗迪：有多少人的记录已被本州法律清除？

米德：你知道，四月份，密歇根州开始实施，开始清除记录。自“Clean Slate”通过以来，已有超过一百万人清除了记录。

佐莫罗迪：哇。

MEADE：到目前为止，我们已经帮助 300 万人清除了他们的记录。

佐莫罗迪：你们的组织帮助六个州通过了“Clean Slate”法律。我的意思是，这件事做起来有多难，或者两党的人都明白这是件好事，因为这意味着更多的人可以继续他们的生活；他们可以获得工作；他们不会无家可归吧？

米德：是的。因此，我们已经帮助 6 个州通过了 Clean Slate 法律，并且有 10 个州在全国范围内颁布了 Clean Slate 政策。在许多州，他们甚至没有将这项立法作为刑事司法问题来推动，更重要的是，就像劳动力问题一样，因为如果记录阻碍了人们的工作，人们就无法重返工作岗位。我们有很多雇主和很多企业正在加入，他们说，我们如何为人们重返劳动力市场创造一条途径？当我们想到三分之一的人被逮捕或被定罪时，这意味着我们很多人都认识受到影响的人。

佐莫罗迪：我确实想问你，是否有人认为运气不好？你犯了一个错误; 你必须忍受它吗？或者您是否发现人们非常同情或支持“从头开始计划”？

米德：是的，你知道，我告诉他们，是的，我做了决定，并且我按照法律规定的时间做了。我应该——这不应该定义我的余生。如果法律规定这不应再成为障碍，那么我们需要确保它不再是障碍。我们的计划是能够进入各州，让他们都走上“从头开始”自动化的道路。

佐莫罗迪：全部。

米德：所有这些都是在接下来的六年里发生的。我们希望能够自动清除超过 1400 万人的记录，并让所有 50 个州走上自动化之路。

佐莫罗迪：我的意思是，您和“从头开始计划”想要实现的目标非常具有历史意义。我的意思是，这是为了改变我们美国人对惩罚和犯罪的看法。这对你来说也很激进吗？

米德：我认为这很激进吗？我认为这只是常识。我认为当你与人交谈时，这只是常识。而且，就像，当我们谈论救赎、第二次机会、宽恕时，我认为大多数人 – 当你与人们交谈并且将人性元素带入其中时，人们会达成一致。我们都被给予了第二次机会。我认为对于我们大多数人来说，我们都要求有第二次机会，无论是来自我们的父母、我们的老师、我们的配偶、我们所爱的人，甚至是我们的孩子、我们的社区。所以我们谈论第二次机会。我们谈论重返大气层，但我们却设置了所有这些繁文缛节。我们必须减少繁文缛节。

佐莫罗迪：如果你能再次与她交谈，在她被捕后，你会对 20 多岁的自己说什么？

米德：你知道，我有很多话可以对 20 多岁的希娜说。我告诉你——很多事情她应该做，你知道吗？但那天我所承受的公众痛苦，在我的邻居面前、在我的孩子面前公开记录的被捕，将转化为一种激情，这将激发我的目标，帮助全国数以百万计的人意识到他们将能够有第二次机会，事情将会扭转。她可能不会相信我。她会说，是的，好吧。但我只是告诉她要坚持下去。继续推。

佐莫罗迪：这是 Sheena Meade，Clean Slate Initiative 的首席执行官。您可以在 ted.com 上查看她的完整演讲。顺便说一句，最新通过“清白法”的州是纽约州。在今天的展会上，大胆的解决方案。我是 Manoush Zomorodi，您正在收听 NPR 的 TED Radio Hour。和我们在一起。